Breaking Free // SO7E12
“But this”, “but that.” We make ourselves captive to the lie that we have the correct characteristics to serve Christ, but God says differently. The reality is that through his grace we can do all thing! In this episode we explore how God can work in our lives despite lacking qualifications, and how our suffering produces deep reliance on Him alone.
Verses from Prison Break:
Psalm 35, Acts 5:40-42, Psalm 19:9, Revelation 19:2.
Quotes from Prison Break:
“You (God) are righteous and you are true in doing so. And that’s what broke me. And that’s what brought me to repentance.”
Dan Johnson, The Pantry Podcast, Prison Break
“And, you know, I think that’s a lot of people’s hangup as far as prison break, you know, it’s like we lock ourselves into this prison and say, “oh, I’m not smart enough.” Or, “I haven’t been to Bible college.” “I don’t have a theological degree.” And you know, the Bible doesn’t say that, you know, as believers we’ve been what qualified.”
Shea Watson, The Pantry Podcast, Prison Break
“And we have a choice. We can choose to try to weather the storm as us, or let him do it and just cling to him trusting. He’ll do it.”
Michelle Watson, The Pantry Podcast, Prison Break
Annotated transcript:
Shea: Are you in a prison of excuses of misconceptions, of unhealthy mindsets. We’re called to be free in Christ, but we’re also promised rejection and oppression for following him. This week we welcome missionary Dan Johnson onto the show to help us free ourselves from false realities that imprison our minds and drill down to the joy and truth of the Lord Almighty.
Shea: Hey I’m Shea.
Michelle: And I’m Michelle.
Shea: Are you equipped for the real battle? In the spiritual, not just about your weaponry, it’s about what you consume and who’s calling the shots in your life. You are listening to the Pantry Podcast, season seven, God Intentions, where we look at the way we live and ask is this from God, or do I just think this is good?
Michelle: Help us fuel 59 countries with spiritual nutrition. Donate on Patreon or the PantryPodcast.com.
Shea: All right. Hey!
Michelle: Hi!
Shea: Another exciting day for sure. I’m telling you, we rack up some cool guests. I’m just going to say it’s always a blessing, how we get these guests is always a blessing. but tonight’s episode is called Prison Break, right? And prison break. You know, I wonder what people think when they think about that, you know, prison break. And then you think about the Bible, then it’s like your mind explodes. And it’s like, oh man, it’s like this freeing idea. Well, when I was thinking of prison break and I was thinking about joy, and I was thinking about like, you know, and where did it take me? It took me to Psalm 35. And it’s like, for his anger is, but for a moment, his favor is for a lifetime weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes in the morning. It’s like with God on your side, there’s nothing else. I mean, it’s like, wow. It’s like, I don’t have to look for anything anywhere else. And you know what the Psalmist was saying here. He’s like, I will exalt you all, Lord. I mean, here’s the joy, right? I will exalt you cause you lifted me up. Have not let my foes rejoice over me. You’ve cried out. You healed me, brought my soul up from the grave. That sound familiar? Kept me alive. I won’t go down to the pit. And he says, sing praises to the Lord, the saints of his and give thanks at the remembrance of his holy name. Prison break. It’s like not being caught behind the gate. It’s like, He’s opened the gate. He’s opened the cage. He’s opened the door. Where the world was suppressing us and holding us. He’s like, here’s true freedom. And that is your joy.
Michelle: Yeah. I see it as joy is a way that He releases us from prison, not just, the sentence to hell, but also just those day to day strongholds that we haven’t let go of yet that week. Cause I mean, he opens every door. He frees us, but yet, sometimes we don’t realize the doors unlocked. Sometimes we work more comfortably inside and the joy in the Lord is our strength and that gives us that ability to walk out of there. So today we have an amazing guest, and Shea and a little bit is going to share how we even came across this guest, which is a really cool story, but Dan Johnson has been a missionary internationally for 30 years and he has been spreading the gospel and his contagious laughter, which you are going to delight in today, for that long. And we’re just excited to have him and I’m going to let him lead most of the discussion about like what he’s done, where he’s been and what he’s gleaned from that. But right now he is stateside for a few more weeks or months and then he’s back to Spain for several years. So give a big warm welcome to Dan Johnson’s.
Dan Johnson: Thank you. It was wonderful to be with you guys.
Shea: I’m telling you, we went to video just in time for this interview. I tell you his laugh, his smile. I mean, and anytime we’ve ever talked to him, it’s contagious and you know the story behind this. So my cousin, Stephanie, I’m, I’m scrolling Facebook. I see this, this post. And she’s like recently I had the joy of having Dan Johnson in our home for over a week while he ministered in two churches in a small group gathering. And yes, we laughed a lot. And here’s this picture of Dan, you know, I didn’t know his name at the time. And it’s like this big smile. It’s her and her husband and him standing. And I don’t know something edged me and it’s like, I got to know you Dan, Dan and his stories. So tell us about yourself, tell us, tell us like your day to day, what you do. Well, 30 years in, in missionary work.
Dan Johnson: Yeah. Well, I spent 12 years in Guatemala and, while I was in Guatemala I was, I had the incredible privilege of being there from the basic to the outset of what’s called the Latin American missions movement. And just, just to explain what that is, just erase any doubts that is the movement of Latinos going to the ends of the earth, which is relatively, I guess maybe new isn’t the word anymore. Actually, the, the outset of the, maybe the official launch of that movement was in 1987 from Sao Paulo, Brazil with an international missionary conference called comi bomb. And the theme of that conference was Latin America is no longer a missions field, but a missions force. So, I came to Guatemala in 1990 and was just at the beginning of that movement of, of what the Mullins are, Mexicans and Argentina, and just all over Latin America, feeling the call of God themselves to go to the ends of the earth. And to me, it is still one of the most exciting areas of missions to be involved in is to see Latinos and as well, Asians and Africans and people, what we typically qualify as from developing nations to see them, that God is raising them up and God is calling them and sending them out and often to what we call the unreached or the unengaged people, groups of the world, which are still to this day in 2021, between four and 6,000 groups around the world who have yet to hear the gospel. Some of those groups are as small as 500 people, let’s say in one of the areas of the Amazon jungle, but they extend from that small number to as many as over a hundred million. And there’s a list of these groups in places like India and Indonesia and China, without to our knowledge, those of us who are looking like in, from the West and any identifiable believer. So, the task before us is still formidable. The Lord is doing some wonderful things. He’s absolutely able to accelerate this process, but while we here in the west get excited and impatient, Lord, come back, we need you. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to hold on, you know, that there are still people who have yet to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ for the first time in their lives and or history as people groups. So, when I went to Guatemala, that was the big focus of getting the gospel to the next level. I had the privilege of training a lot of Latino missionary candidates and working with their pastors and, and denominations and newly formed missions committees, all that was new 30 plus years ago. And, I began to discover that a lot of those candidates felt called to work with Muslims, which at that stage in my life, I had no knowledge or frankly interest in. But, I thought, well, since I am supposedly training my Latino brothers and sisters for their own callings, to serve the Lord, I had best to be finding something out about Islam and the Muslim world. And that began to thrust me into the Muslim world and little did I anticipate that the Lord was going to get ahold of my own heart in that process. So since, 2003, when I moved to Spain, that has been, my focus is sharing the gospel with our Muslim friends, wherever the Lord opens that opportunity for me.
Michelle: Wow. That’s awesome. In that alone, I see multiple, I would say breaks like, you know, barriers breaking. And I love the idea that, of the, I, I love the idea of the mission field becoming the mission force. I really liked that because I think so often when you come from, I guess we’ll just use the common terms, like the developed nations, right? We’re like, well, we better be sending and funding all this, all this stuff. You know, we’re the ones that have all the resources, you know, but I always love to see God used those who, I guess, stereotypically don’t have all that. You know, I love to see it
Dan Johnson: Serving, serving the same God. And it’s just amazing to just see that awakening and that realization, you mean, “Jesus can, can call me the same Jesus that is calling you can provide for me?” And it happens. I mean, it’s obviously on a different scale and maybe a little bit different, but he indeed is the same yesterday, today and forever. He’s the same God for, for Argentina and Mexicans and, and, and, Libyans and India as he is for America. So we’re in this together
Shea: And you say that like mission force and of course, you know, may the force be with you? That’s the ultimate force. Y’all, that’s the holy spirit rock and roll, you know, guide you, kind of force that we need. But a, and I’m hearing this too, and it’s, it’s awesome to hear this and the whole time I’m like, can you send them to America, please? Can you send them to America please? Because we need some cross cultural missions coming into America because we don’t see our demons. And I think that’s an important role to watch you grow in that and to watch you work with, you know, South America or Central America, and, just grow these people in there in the, you know, like work with God to grow them in the faith. Like, I can do this, I can do this. And, you know, I think that’s a lot of people’s hangup as far as prison break, you know, it’s like we lock ourselves into this prison and say, “oh, I’m not smart enough.” Or, “I haven’t been to Bible college.” “I don’t have a theological degree.” And you know, the Bible doesn’t say that, you know, as believers we’ve been what qualified. Yes.
Shea: Yeah. So, that, it’s like, I just gotta be stories, stories out of like Guatemala or, or somewhere of just like just powerhouses that just that you just worked with.
Dan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think of one of my dear friends, she’s one of the pioneers, she’s one of the first, first to be sent out. And I won’t, I won’t mention the country because it is a very sensitive area, but, I have known her and I will call her, Eonisae that’s not her name, but I will use her name is Eonisae, Hey, when you say, is that when she was a little girl, she began to feel the call of God to be a missionary herself. And she would go to her pastor and, and her mom and dad and leadership. It’s like, God is calling me to be a missionary. Oh, yes, I mean, that’s nice. And it just, you know, blow her off. because the overriding feeling was we’re poor. We can’t, we don’t know. I mean, it’s just a, we would say in Spanish contra el viento mal, against the wind and rain, really, they had to push through and pursue their obedience to the Lord. And, so there was never any infrastructure. There was never any open doors. It was always, no, you can’t. No, we don’t. No, no, no, but they just keep pushing and keep pushing, moved by the Holy Spirit, obviously. So when we started, a small missions training school and what their Marla, she was one of the first to sign up, but she was so excited to finally have a solid step that she would take in fulfilling her calling to God. So she was involved in classes and it was just exciting to see her, you know, just, oh yes, Jesus. Well, a few years went by and she came to me and she said, Dan, I, I feel like Jesus is calling me to, and I’ll leave the name of the country out. And I said, really? He said, oh, she said, yeah, what am I going to do? And I said, I don’t know, you know, this is beyond both of us. We just need to pray. So we began to pray and dream and hope, and she’s continuing her training and her preparation a couple more years went by. And, she comes to me again. She says, Dan, I had a dream. And honestly I’m Pentecostal. I love everything that is supernatural. And I love dreams and visions and the miraculous, but I’m also astute enough and experienced that, that really doesn’t impress me when somebody uses that language. But with Eonisae, being a deeply godly woman, and when she says I’ve had a dream, I’m paying attention. I said, okay, well tell me about it. She said, well, I dreamed that Jesus took me by the hand. And we were flying through the air. As you know, you typically often do in dreams. And, she said, we’re flying over some water. And in the middle of this water was this rock formation. And Jesus said to me, you’re going to help people to find refuge in this, this rock. And, that was the end of the dream. And so she immediately thought, well, there’s a very popular hymn Spanish called, Cristo la roca de horeb,
Jesus is the rock of Horeb. It’s very common throughout all of Latin America. So she just kind of attributed this dream to, well, of course, Jesus, what he’s saying to me is, is, he’s going to use me to bring people, to find refuge in la roca de Horeb. Jesus is the rock. So, you know, it’s easy enough to understand. Well, time went on and then as it turns out, she connects with this American missionary who is living and working in this country. And she was really excited because this missionary spoke Spanish had spent many years in Guatemala and now she’s in this other country. So they began to connect and they started making plans to join up. And, so things are just moving quickly and you know, they’re all excited and they’re putting their plans together. Well, about three weeks out of this trip that they were going to take. She calls me again and she says, Dan, this is only three weeks away. And I don’t have any money. I don’t know how I’m going to pay for this. I said, I don’t know either, let’s pray! So we began to pray. And then it was like two days later, she says, Dan, you’re not going to believe what happened. I said, yes, I have no, you’re not!
So this lady from, from, from Guatemala, she says, Hey, Eonisae, I heard that you’re planning on making this trip. This is a restaurant owner of a very popular restaurant in Guatemala. She said, God has put on my heart and I’m going to pay for that trip. So you can go to this country. Really? Yes, what’s more. I am going to accompany you to make sure I leave you in good hands. So they went, they got there to a neighboring country. They get there. And when they went to get her visa, she goes into the embassy office. And the embassy guy, as is typical, was very rude. And he says, “no, you’re not going to get in there. We don’t have any diplomatic relationships with Guatemala: canceled!”
Well, she’s just shocked. I mean, she’s been praying and believing and trusting God and this miraculous provision of this plane trip and only to get to the doorstep, no visa. Okay, go ahead, Jesus. So she decided the next day that she was going to go back and at least to ask them for the explanation as to why they had denied her visa. So she goes back and she says, “excuse me, but I would just like to understand why I was denied.” “No, Guatemala has no diplomatic relationships with this country.” “Well, I don’t understand it.” “No.” And it turns out that this embassy official thought Guatemala was in Africa, he had no clue. He had to take out a map and show me where Guatemala is. “Oh.”
Now she’s got a visa. She’s going with her American friend. And along the way, she tells her this dream that she had years before. Eonisae, we’re going to take a trip. So they get into the country, they get on a train, a long train ride. They take a bus, the taxi, and they get to the edge of this huge river. And this American missionary says, and when you say, look up, lift your eyes and there, before her was the very rock formation that she had dreamed of. And so it turns out that this area of this particular country is known for these rock formations that is in the middle of this huge river that people have found refuge for years and years through political movements and everything. So the Lord wasn’t even, wasn’t only speaking to her about her being used to bring people in this country to Jesus, but in this particular geographical region. So, I mean, that’s just one example of ways that the Lord is calling and locating people for his service.
Michelle: I love the stories that have a hitch. Like there’s a hitch, there’s a wrinkle. And then God shows up, right? Because often we have this misunderstanding of how God works. That if he wants us there.
Dan Johnson: Everything’s gonna go smoothly.
Michelle: Exactly, everything’s going to go smoothly. And yeah, I mean that in itself would be a miracle. If everything just went smoothly, that would be enough. But the joy, the faith, the hope, the confidence, confidence in our Lord when there’s a wrinkle. And we’re like, no, but I’m certain, like you said, in your word, or you gave me this prompting or, you know, and we’re like, we’re just certain that if it’s his will, nothing will stop it. And so if there’s a wrinkle, it’s not like we’re, sometimes people are eager for a hitch because they just instantly take it as a red flag instead of a yellow flag. And they turn back around. Cause they were too scared already. They were uncertain. They were in doubt. They were hoping they were wrong you know, but there’s something about the joy when there’s a joy that dreads, even if it’s tough, even if it’s scary, even if it’s uncertain, that joy pulls us through because we know God is faithful. God will take care of me. God has a plan and it’s the best plan. And so turning back around, if he doesn’t want me to, is me kicking myself, you know, like I need to keep, I have to just be steadfast. He needs to be clear if he doesn’t actually want me here, he’s wanting, there’s a reason, you know, that he had me all this way and,
Dan Johnson: And you used a phrase, “we know that God is faithful.” And I think that’s precisely the problem. I was sharing with somebody just last week. I said, and just speaking about myself, even after all these years of serving Jesus, I don’t know Jesus well enough. If I knew him for who he is, I think 75, 80, 85% of my problems would just evaporate because I still don’t know him for who he actually is. Then that’s where fear, doubt, all this, you know, all kinds of things come up. And I know that that’s not just true for myself. I think that’s true for the church in America, especially particularly, but it’s not limited. It’s, it’s, it’s a universal problem. We who profess to know him, don’t know him well enough. And even though we’ve got these catchphrases, God is faithful. And we, you know, we, we learn the language when it comes down to it. Our lives reflect the degree to which we don’t know him. Right. Otherwise, if we knew him for who he is, we would live our lives differently.
Shea: Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we say that quite a bit on our show, you know, from the sanctification position, right. Positional sanctification into that experience, which is sanctification. It’s like, we just don’t quite get it, but, you know, today I heard something and, and, you know, I think these things come out sometimes, and this guy was talking and he said, maybe if we would start to look at our relationship with Christ as a transfusion, you know, it’s no longer I, but Christ in me, he goes, then we would stop going through the checklist of every time something comes up, you know? Well, let me stop. Okay. Let me pray. Okay. Let me ask God, okay. Now let me wait. Or are we just sit there and say, he’s going to do it. And it was kind of cool. And that’s that transfusion that we’ve received. You know, his blood is now our blood, you know what I’m saying? It’s amazing. And to listen about this little powerhouse of a Latino woman that sat there
Dan Johnson: That sat there, and she’s just one, right? I mean, there are many others!
Shea: It’s so cool though. It’s like turning back to, these are government officials. And normally, you know, we sit there, we’re like, oh, but she’s like, I’m going back. I’m going to, I am going back for an explanation because God laid it on her heart. She wasn’t walking in there on her own power or her own strength, but she was going in with the spirit of the Lord. And then it’s just amazing to hear these stories.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. The, the rational, I often see the rational and the, and the joy of God at odds. And we said this on someone else’s recently where I was talking about how, you know, there’s actually a lot of demonic activity when it comes to the idea of rational. And when you give humans the idea that we can be rational, we’re labeling something that’s irrational, rational to give ourselves comfort that we could possibly wrap our heads around something in a rational way with our limited knowledge. And we just do not have the awareness of how things actually work well enough to be rational at any given moment. There’s leaps of faith, whether or not you have God in your heart or not, leaps of faith every day to make like, without like to not go insane. And yet when we walk with Christ in this, in this faith, we label it radical. When really it, I would say is the closest thing to rational. We actually have, if we were going off the strict definition of the word, you know, to follow him. But often his joy makes us look careless and irrational and reckless to the world, but we’re trusting in the only thing that can guide us through such uncertainty. You know? And I think that you’re so right to say that we don’t know him well enough. I think that’s something that a lot of people are scared to admit, because we would prefer to say that every day we’re learning him more. But I would also say that every day we are allowing things in our life to hinder how well we know him, because we’re cleaning to them out of rational thinking and what we think is rational thinking. I don’t know how many times I’ve, I’ve I like to speak as close and accurate to the truth as I can, even when I am guilty of not doing it, because I’m like, at least it’s reinforcing the truth in my mind and not trying to just. What’s the word? Compromise. You know? And, and, and compromise the truth to make myself feel better.
And there’s been so many times where people have struggled so much with just plain Bible without, without added story, without added fluff, without added justification, without added analogy. Like just strictly, like, this is what God said, so I can take it at that. I can take that alone to the bank. I don’t need a sermon wrapped around it. I don’t need a ham wrapped around it. That, what he said is enough. And, and yet it’s be rational it’s, but what about your job, but how will you provide for your family? But, but college is important, but you know, but, but but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but. And, and I think all of our “buts” are exactly why we struggle and sit in prisons. I think the “buts” are the prisons to break out
Shea: You definitely sit on your butts in prison. I had to go there. I’m sorry y’all. But, so as,we’re sitting here, so I had this question, cause I mean, we’re talking about this, we’re talking like, you know, we, we don’t understand God and that’s, that’s great. But what are some of the ways that you found, you know, 30 plus years on the mission field, 30 plus years of working with people and encouraging people of, watch this, being encouraged, right? What are some of the practices that you put in place, not these religious practices, but these things that you would suggest to people to draw them in closer?
Dan Johnson: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with our fundamental understanding what the gospel actually is. We have redefined the gospel according to our culture. And I often say that, I feel like if we had to summarize, starting with our identity as Americans, we would say, I have the right to be happy. In fact, I said recently, I think our next constitutional amendment is going to be that. I have the right, I have the constitutional right to be happy. And anything that interferes with that happiness, I have the perfect right to get rid of that. Getting into my husband, wife, children, church, Hey, gets in the way of my happiness. I have the right to be happy. And therefore it’s gone, which is completely contrary to the scripture. The Bible has not, Jesus has not promised us happiness. He has promised us joy. And unfortunately there are two contrasting ideas that many people don’t understand. They see those synonyms. And I don’t,, I believe that happiness is conditioned upon our circumstances, it’s that sensation of pleasantness when things are going my way and right. And, joy is part of the fruit of the spirit. It’s that, that work of God in our lives and transforming us that comes out of ironically pain. I think joy and pain are intricately related and they can’t be separated and weak. And we do not want to hear that. We don’t want to think about, we don’t want to embrace that far from that. Because that pain and happiness don’t go together. But, it’s only when we have suffered, we’ve shared in the fellowship of his sufferings that I might know him, like Paul said, and the power of his resurrection. So I think just fundamentally our understanding of the gospel is an error. Jesus said that unless you take up your cross and deny yourself and follow me, you cannot be my disciple. I mean, it’s just non-negotiable. And somehow we fool ourselves into thinking, well, you know, I think that that whole idea of denying self is real. It’s so much a part of the heart of the gospel. And yet it’s almost, even in our Christian circles, we seem to think, that denying self. Yeah, that’s true. But it’s, it’s almost like that’s something that we grow out of. Yeah. I, I came to Jesus. I met Jesus. I died to self, and now he’s launched me into a life of fulfilling myself. Oh, Well, no denying ourselves is not something we grow out of, it’s something that we grow into. And, again, it’s not a popular message. It doesn’t resonate with our cultural formation. And yet that’s, that’s how I see the scripture.
Shea: Put on dying. Nobody thinks that way. We always think about how we’re going to live, but I like that. How many times have we heard from the pulpit? You know, that Jesus came not to not to bring peace and you know, it’s like, we don’t hear these, you know, it’s like, we always say the feel good, what’s good, how you’re good. You know, the grace, and grace is great. No, grace is grace is necessary, but there’s gotta be this understanding and this gospel breakdown of truth of what grace really is. And I’m sitting here cause we have a, we have a fish tank and I have this analogy because I’m sitting here and it’s a, it’s a saltwater tank. We have this little Gobi and then we have this little pistol shrimp and they’re, and they’re sending out with each other.
Right. But every once in a while, the pistol ship shrimp actually hits the Gobi, like kind of pow, pow, pow. Right? Well, the Gobi is like a warning. You know, his vision’s not good. You know, the Pistol Shrimp can’t see. And so the Gobi is kind of his eyes. And then when something comes, he gets back and the Pistol Shrimp follows him, but he beats on him, but they, but they, but they work together. You know, he’s not the best all the time. But if anything was to come against the Gobi, the Pistol Shrimp would take the defense for him. And I was just thinking about, as you’re telling the story, you know, it’s like, it’s not always easy for us, you know? And I, and I think that when we’re looking for easy street in Christianity, I’m not saying that things won’t go smooth, but I’m just saying that it’s gotta be easy. It’s gotta be easy. I can’t, well, what’s wrong with me? I can’t get there. I can’t get to this easy street. I can’t get to what, what, what am I doing wrong? What can I do more? What can I, what can I, what can I, and, and in reality, we just need to sit back and rest in it. And I like hearing what you’re saying. I love that. I love that. I liked what you said too. It’s like, you know, what we call radical for Jesus is actually, what’d you say, just the most rational.
Dan Johnson: Well, and it should, it should be normal. It’s almost irritating. Sometimes when, you know, again, here in the West, we see here are people doing what Jesus has called them to do. And somehow that becomes a radical expression of faith. When even when we have done what he’s called us to do, we’re still unfaithful servants. So why have we redefined normal? What should be normal into radical?
Shea: I like that. And obviously you’re teaching this to, you know, all of these, these disciples that you’ve been around and met, I’ll tell you what, you got a powerhouse with a message like this and a thought process like this. Yeah. That’s beautiful. Yeah.
Dan Johnson: Well, you know, I learned a long time ago. I don’t do anybody any favor by, by requiring less of them than Jesus does. And that’s what our American gospel does. We were striving to require less of people than Jesus himself did. And we’re trying to soften the gospel when we’re trying to make it acceptable and relevant and all these terms that we use. But if that ends up requiring less than Jesus himself did, then what, what are we doing? What are we teaching? What are we preaching? It’s we just diluted ourselves into this false gospel actually is when it comes out down to
Michelle: On that. I think of how we’re living vicariously through other saints rather than letting Christ live through us. Because we look at Paul and Peter and John and Steven and Barnabas, and we’re like, wow, I wish I could be like them. But, and what’s funny is I had one verse that I was like, that’s the verse for this episode? And I didn’t, I saw the connection, but I didn’t know how it would fit in. And it’s, it’s from Acts 5:40-42. And it’s when Peter and John had been called in to the authorities because they were preaching the gospel. And it says, “they called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus and let them go. The apostles left the Sanhedrin rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the name day after day in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped preaching and, or teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.” And most will read that and be like, wow, wish I could be like them. Right. And yet they’re the standard. And right there, it’s showing that there is glory in suffering for Christ. There is rejoicing to be had when we’re counted, worthy enough to be used in such a way that we suffer in this temporary life for our eternal savior. And that’s something it’s so challenging. And you can even feel the flesh. Like when you hear it, you hear like, there’s a part of you that just is like, like mad and yet
Dan Johnson: Reject. Reject. Reject.
Michelle: Yes. Like you’re just want to, like, there’s a part of you that just wants to, you know, say no but, I think the flesh is just our “buts.” And I know that sounds funny, but like, it’s just like, our flesh is constantly acting like Satan in the garden saying, but did God really? Like, we don’t even need Satan. And most of the time, our own people are always trying to you say this, like rebuke the devil. And if you still have the problem, it’s you
Shea: I’m like, Hey, if you, if you have a problem, you think that that’s, Satan’s coming against you rebuke him in Jesus name. Cause he can’t occupy that space. And when you still feel that way, you better do a spiritual check. Cause it’s your flesh. Yeah. Like that. Thank you.
Michelle: So, so we’re talking about joy and we’re talking about suffering for Christ and we’re talking about here, like he must increase and we must factually decrease for this to work and for us to bring him glory. So can you share a time where it was just the hardest to cling to that joy, but on the other side of it, it almost made it that much richer for you to cling to it at all.
Dan Johnson: In 1987, I was at, I didn’t realize it was towards the end, but I was, I was in a three-year period of depression as a, I was on staff at Teen Challenge in Seattle. And for the previous three years I had struggled and I was doing all the same spiritual disciplines and felt like they weren’t working. Everything that I had learned since I given my heart to Jesus was just not working. I felt like I was getting further and further and further and further away from the Lord. And, I can remember even getting into the pulpit as I was teaching in chapel, everything and thinking, you know what? I don’t even believe this, whatever I was teaching, but I was, I had a responsibility I had to fulfill and that’s just an awful place to be at. I’m teaching and preaching something that I don’t even believe. And at the worst moment of this, I had a very tragic trauma in my life where my sister had died in, as a result of a fire that was caused by her cocaine usage in Alaska. And that is a very dark, dark time. I had to go up there and recover her body. Thankfully her two year old daughter survived, bring them back to Washington. I did the service buried her. When do you go through that something like that. It’s, you’re running on adrenaline. You just, I had to inform each one of my members of my family, which I will remember for the rest of my life, the screams. But anyway, I got through that. And after that is when the questions began to come, you know, after you get through that adrenaline rush, you’ve done everything and then you just kind of crash. And, quickly I started to get very angry and very bitter at God. I felt like, I actually, I actually believe that God liked me. And, so it, it was like everyday I was, I was letting go of something else I had taught and believed and preached for years. Is God a God of love? I don’t know. Does God answer prayers, but what does prayer do anyway? It was just like I was being stripped away from everyday. I finally got to a point where I, the only thing I could affirm was there is a God, I couldn’t deny that there is a God. But at that point in my life, I didn’t know who he was or how he operates or, and the joyful Dan that everybody knew was gone. And I just wanted to crawl into a cave someplace and die. I felt like I was on my way to Hell and I didn’t care. It was just, I mean, if Jesus lied to me about this, then what else did he lie to me about? It was just this amazing, awful confusion. And, so that went on for a period of months. There’s a lot of details to this, but, finally I was back on a farm in Pennsylvania, just kind of striving to recover. I couldn’t pray. I couldn’t read the Bible. Even the book of Psalms, which is a book of comfort. I felt like he used to buy. I couldn’t even, I couldn’t even look at it. I was just there. But slowly, the clouds began to kind of dissipate. And then one day a verse I had memorized years before just kind of blasted into my memory. “The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.” What? The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. And I just, God, you judged my sister. Unfortunately she led an awful life. She was a stripper, she was a prostitute. She was a bar worker, party girl. And just two months previous, which turned out to be our last Christmas together. I had, I sat down with her on the sofa and I said, you know, by the way that you’re living, you’re going to die. And I beg you, please go to a lawyer and at least document what you want to happen to your daughter. And that’s a pretty offensive thing to say, right? But her response was, “yeah, you’re right. I need to do that.” Of course, she never did anything. And that just opened up another lifetime of repetition in her life. But so I wasn’t, I wasn’t angry or bitter about what happened. I could see this happen. It is going to happen. It was just two months after this. She indeed was dead. No. I was angry and bitter about it. I felt like God didn’t warn me. He didn’t, I in, in the most vulnerable and weakest moment of my life with no preparation whatsoever, he stepped back and let this happen. And didn’t have the courtesy to somehow forewarn me of what, right at the edge of this happening. So that’s where the anger and bitterness grew. But anyway, when this all came together and the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether, Lord, you judged my sister. You are righteous and you are true in doing so. And that’s what broke me. And that’s what brought me to repentance. I know some people have a hard time listening to this story. but, you know, I can’t help that. and that’s what healed me again, bringing us back to who this God is that we serve. He is loving and he is kind, and he is merciful and he is patient, but he is also true and righteous. And if we can embrace all of those characteristics and qualities, that’s where our security and our joy comes from because we are, we’re knowing him as he is. And not necessarily how we want.
Shea: The clouds lifted and the joy we see today. Obviously God did a big work inside of you. If you guys want to, you can go out there and read Revelation 19:2, because it carries on and you can see the impact of that. I’m not going to read it, but you can see the impact of that verse in the situation that we just experienced or that we just heard about. But then God, you know, because we all see in the Bible then God. So where did that? Where did that jump? Because we got to hear that.
Dan Johnson: You started this podcast off with weeping may endure for a night. And I know that pretty well. And some of those nights are very long, but joy comes in the morning and it’s not something fabricated. It’s not something that we can generate because when you are broken and you are even unfaithful, it says that even if we deny him, he cannot deny himself. And it’s him, it’s his work.
Michelle: He is. He is, you know, that is, that is in my darkest moments. They, they, they just come up and they, and they seemingly take me over, but it always comes down to when, when they come, all I know to do. And I think this is the way I can explain the joy that you’re, that you’re speaking of, in the sense of when those moments come, I’ve learned not to ask for him to take them, but to just like, if he was a Palm tree in a hurricane, like just cling to him for dear life,
Dan Johnson: Embrace them.
Michelle: Embrace it, you know, just be like, you’re going to see me through like, in the world, like the poetry would like get snatched up and just fly off into oblivion, but like our Lord, our Christ doesn’t and he’s the only thing that won’t get uprooted. Everything else is fair game. And so you just cling to him with all you’ve got, knowing you’re not always going to be at your best and you might not get an A+ in like the check boxes of, of what would make you a good Christian right now. But what he cares about more than anything is that you’re not clinging to something else instead. And that joy that he never changes. And he’ll never be up for grabs. He’s not, he’s not fair game in a hurricane. And so I can, like, the joy is like, no matter how bad I do at this test, if I just clean to you, I haven’t failed in the, you know, like, and because he goes before me, he goes behind me. And if I’m decreasing and he’s increasing, then he’s there. And he has set apart this struggle, this storm for himself. And we have a choice. We can choose to try to weather the storm as me, or let him do it and just cling to him trusting. He’ll do it. And that’s the joy is that I have an out. And the out, the mercy, that I have to decrease.
Shea: I can’t remember if you might be able help me here. Dan, but I think it was Isaiah, but anyways, God is telling Isaiah, it is Isaiah it’s when he’s, he’s going before the throne. And he’s about, he’s telling him how he’s about to destroy the people. And then it comes down to, he goes, I’m gonna take them down to the root, but the root is holy. In other words, like all of that destruction yet we are holy because he is holy. So like the Palm tree made me think of that. Like the ripping away, like the Palm tree is still there. Maybe the branches are broken, the leaves are gone. That root is still there. We’re there, we’re still in that root system and we’re ready to keep on going and growing. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, I, so on the way out, what would the prayers, what, what do you want to tell somebody? I mean, just real quick, you know, like, Hey, just be joyful. I don’t know, laugh.
Michelle: We know you, don’t like, you’re not busy in the social spaces cause you’re in those physical spaces. So if there’s a prayer, like if you have a specific thing, you would like all of our listeners to be joining with you in prayer for,
Dan Johnson: I have, I have believed for many years that God will raise up an army. If I can use that term of former Muslims to preach the gospel and in doing so, laying down their lives in every sense of the word. And so I have worked towards that vision and that goal for many years we’re seeing more and more Muslims to come to know Jesus every, every day. And as with everything else, there’s a lot of ups and downs there’s it’s a long conversation in itself. But, now that I’m going back to Spain and moving into the next phase of, of, of service and ministry, I just long to see that take place. And it’s a very, slow, very much of a seed sowing ministry at one-to-one. There, you know, you will hear people talking about massive moves to Christ.
And, honestly I think a lot of that in particular reference to Muslim people, groups is, is hype. And, if you really look into the details of that, there’s not much substance to it, but everybody that I know that is making significant impacts in the Muslim world is doing so on a one by one-to-one basis. And they’re not seeing much fruit. but again, I clarify, yeah, there, there is, there are more Muslims coming to Jesus today than ever before. In fact, the fastest growing church in the world today is inside Iran. And the second fastest growing church is in Afghanistan. So those are, on debatable facts, but together with that, there’s a huge need for discipleship. It’s complicated. So to get solid believers that are deeply rooted in the word and the Spirit continues to be an enormous challenge. So
Shea: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Is there any funding sites I’m gonna ask that too. Is there any place that people could give if they want it to?
Dan Johnson: Yes. I’ve got a link I could, I could, pass on this. Should I put it in the chat?
Michelle: We’ll add it to our show notes and make sure… We’ll add, yeah. We’ll add a link to how you can be funded in your ministry to help spread the gospel message around the world, to all of those thousands of people groups. We’ll go ahead and put that in our show notes and to connect with Dan for prayer. We’ll pass on any prayers that you specifically have for him as well as to just ask us any questions, you can go to the pantrypodcast.com. So until next time, bye.
Shea: Bye!
Dan Johnson: Thank you guys.
Keywords: Prison Break. Suffering for God. Serving God. Joy in God. Joy in Christ.