It’s About What Works // S01E10 (EPISODE 10)
Why is it so easy to dismiss what we don’t like as unnecessary, untrue, irrelevant, or option? It isn’t about what we like, it’s about what works. So…what works?
QUESTIONS WE TOUCH ON IN THIS EPISODE:
VERSES FROM IT’S ABOUT WHAT WORKS
Judges 17-21, Judges, 17:6, Proverbs 2-5, Hebrews 3:4
QUOTES FROM IT’S ABOUT WHAT WORKS
“When you’re praying, ask for that discernment for that level of understanding, because we can do grotesque things and still demand justice from others and have no idea what we’re leading ourselves down. And it’s only out of often the best intentions. But again, it’s not about the best intentions. It’s about what works and what works is what God wants.”
Michelle Watson, The Pantry Podcast, S01E10 (EPISODE 10)
“Rock bottom. It’s that place that a lot of people get to. So their life is this spiral. You know, they’ve been going in this direction. I mean, Hey, I’m one of those rock bottom people. And so your life is completely out of control and you’re spiraling down this hole and you get to this place and you’re like, it’s the worst it could ever be. And you find yourself either continuing the path or calling out. And a lot of people call out to God. And so this is kind of a beautiful moment.”
Shea Watson, The Pantry Podcast, S01E10 (EPISODE 10)
Transcript
Michelle: We’ve promised the people beatboxing many a time. And you’ve only beat boxed once because you’re not the beatboxer.
Shea: Let’s hear it. Come on. Hey look, competition. I’m all about competition, friendly competition.
Michelle: One other rhythm. Cause I swear, I’ve heard that rhythm about 20 times.
Michelle: I can’t beat that. It’s okay.
Shea: I heard you today. Talk about how you taught our daughter how to beatbox.
Michelle: Yeah. So you’ll continue her teaching in level three.
Shea: I think that her skill though is like, even above my, I don’t know how she puts three sounds together.
Michelle: Yeah. It’s cause I taught her young. So she already surpassed the teacher.
Shea: What do you do for Jesus? I beatbox. That’s cool.
Michelle: Look, look, if she could beat box Psalms, come on now. All right. Right. That’ll be her first task. Okay.
Shea: What’s up everyone. How you doing today? Oh, we gotta get serious. Cause man, it’s not about what you like. It’s about what works. Yes. Yes.
Michelle: So this phrase that we have used as the title of this episode is actually something I started saying back when I worked in an office environment as a graphic designer, because a lot of the times we ended up getting last minute requests or requests that had a lot of work, but a very quick turnaround time. And I feel like that’s just the norm in so many different units and departments, but in graphic design, you’re often expected to just pull your creativity out of a hat on demand, right?
Michelle: That’s not how creativity works, but some of the edits that we would get back during those sensitive times are can you change out the color? I just don’t like green normally. I mean, I would tease out why, but sometimes it came down truly to personal preference. So I started telling people, you know, when we would have our one-on-ones about, you know, what the process would be, if they would submit things to me, I would say, it’s often not about what you like, it’s about what works.
Michelle: And I want to hear your criticism. I want to hear your edits because that’s how we’re going to get to that. Nice, awesome, effective, refined, final product. But if the only reason it can’t be blue isn’t because blue is, you know, the competitor’s color or evokes the wrong emotion. If it’s just that everyone loves it. What you just don’t like blue, you know, I mean, let’s, let’s sit for a second and evaluate how much extra time is going to go into this for personal preference rather than priority. Right? When I came to Christ, I realized that this actually had a much better, stronger application than posters and Palm cards and realized it’s not about what we like. It’s about what works and what works is, what God wants.
Michelle: He knows what works. He knows every law he’s put into place. And when I say law, I mean, you know, gravity, I mean every circumstance, everything from the makeup of everybody’s DNA, to what they’re thinking in this moment, he’s incorporated all of that.
Michelle: So we really need to trust him. But I often see that the reason people stumble in their Christian walk is because they are trying to put their personal preference in and it’s not jiving with what God’s saying. And so instead of saying, well, that means I need to die to self and kill off this opinion of mine. Right? Or talk to God about it at the very least instead they’re saying, well, this isn’t the church for me. This isn’t the religion for me. This isn’t the God for me, I’m just going to ignore this part of the Bible because it just doesn’t feel right to me. And in those kinds of situations feel is not a solid rock to stand on that isn’t the best outlook to have when you’re trying to walk behind God.
Shea: The one thing that really stands out to me and what you just said is how we skip over parts of the Bible. It’s like, when you first come to Christ, it’s like, you’ll be reading. You’re like, Oh yeah, I’m good. I’m good. And you read something and it’s like, Oh wait, well, let me just skip ahead. It’s because you’re trying to learn how to adapt to a new way of thinking. It’s amazing, you know, thoughts and keep our minds on heavenly things is always a hard starting point. You know? It’s like, but as you go through it, it’s amazing. You know, you start to grow better and more in tune to that mindframe.
Michelle: Yeah. It’s one of those things that I’ve seen at the heart of a lot of people’s problems when we sit down and we’re talking about what the struggle is and it’s one of those things, thanks to oddly enough, that graphic design saying when I came to Christ, he really reminded me of that. And I’ve sat in that the whole time I might be utterly miserable. You’re a Testament to that. I might sit there and be so honest with you and be like, I do not like what he wants me to do, but what I’m prone to do does not jive. And I’ve had friends who, you know, they’re, they’re super feminist in the worldly sense. And so the idea of submitting to any man, like let alone their husband is just like theirs. It’s so far beyond. They’re like, I’d rather just gloss over that.
Michelle:I’ve had people say, well, you know, this doesn’t align with my political beliefs. So I’m just going to kind of cherry pick, or I have this grudge against this person and it’s inconvenient to use grace here. So although God obviously wants grace for everyone, I’m going to dance around, find a convenient Bible story that justifies holding a grudge and move on that way. And that’s all dangerous doctrine starts coming into play. That’s why church breakups have happened. Instead of everyone turning and saying, let’s look at what the actual word says, it’s well, what’s our preference or what feels right.
Shea: I think they really boils down to sometimes what stands out more. Everyone has something. I have my own things that I like to talk about, you know, identity. I’m sure that this will come out a lot in this podcast because I just like identity. But what I really am cautious about when I go through the Bible is making sure that I balance it. Yeah. I think that’s really important that we balance all of the words together. You know, then there’s, it’s never wise to grab a hold of one portion and just really go after that. I mean, it’s good to go after all of them actually aren’t we serve a balance. God. So
Michelle: When I’m trying to walk people through it, when I’m trying to walk myself through it, I go to judges, my least favorite story in the Bible actually shows why we are the worst to trust with what is right and what is wrong and what makes sense. There’s a lot of verses that summit up. We’ll see, it’s a challenge. Cause you know, I mean real quick and this section of the Bible it’s got, it’s going to be fun.
Michelle: It’s between Judges 17-21. So that whole big chunk of judges and it starts off in those days. Israel had no King. All the people did, whatever seemed right in their own eyes. And doesn’t that just kick it off. Right? They didn’t learn from literally any story that preceded them. That’s exactly what we’re doing. When we say God’s word, doesn’t sit right with us and maybe we’re just interpreting it wrong and we should sit and we should talk to somebody and say, Hey, just to double check, you know, at my really reading this, right. Cause maybe you disagree with something. And it also is not what the Bible is actually saying. You know, you’re lacking the context or something.
Michelle: But if you do in fact, know what it’s saying? And you just don’t like it. This is a great way to see all the different ways it can go wrong. When people have all these solid to themselves intentions, this section of judges starts with a guy named Micah who steals money from his mom already. My head was spinning in this story. He steals money from his mom. And she’s like, thanks for being honest and use the money to make an image carved and an idol cast in honor of her son,
Shea: Actually, she doubled it right. A hundred cycles. And she’s like, wow, you’re so good. You’re honest. I’m gonna throw in another hundred.
Michelle: And I’m like, so wait, I would never consciously, right. I mean, I’m sure a thousand times I’ve done it accidentally consciously. Would I ever sit there and invest in something that I’m going to worship actively as something I think is going to give me like everything I could ever want. Just saying that I’m like, okay, there’s some times that I’ve put a lot of eggs in one basket, but you know, Micah takes it a step further. He sets up a a shrine, more idols, you know, he’s making his own religion. You know, I’ve heard a lot of people who make up their own religion and want everyone else to buy into it. And then they take advantage of those people. But when you believe it yourself and put yourself at the mercy of something you made up, I’m just like, that’s that already blows my mind.
Shea: I think of it like a multiplier. She becomes the multiplier. So already the mind frame is going in the wrong direction. And so it made it so much easier for him to carry that next thought of, Oh, I’m going to build me a shrine. And you know, right at that point though, there was only one other place of worship, which was the place of worship. And here he is creating his own,
Michelle: Right. A young Levite comes along. We know the role that the Levites had. So finding this wandering young Levi, just out, looking for a place to live, hence that he’s not living in God’s calling and Micah comes and says, you can be my dad and my priest, which again, wait what, that’s again, just more nonsense. And he says, sure. And then he becomes Micah’s son. It’s just absurd. Then he thinks that because he has a Levite as a priest in his made up religion, that he’s going to be blessed by the Lord. So another thing where you pick and choose parts of the truth and you think just because you have a little, little tidbit of it, you’re going to be blessed. When in reality you’re ignoring the God who gives any of it, any power or any authority whatsoever. All of that already crazy.
Michelle: The tribe of Dan comes wandering in not moving where God wanted them to. So another example of a group of people ignoring God’s will out there looking for their own way. They see the Levite. They’re like, what are you doing here? And you know, they ask the Levi, will God bless them in what they want to do? You know, there’s no consultation with the actual God, just people using godly, sounding things to figure out all of that. And then they come across a group of people and they focus all on what that group of people has, not on what God has promised for them. And so they decide that they’re going to take this guys, Micah’s religion, they’re going to all this stuff in more additional wisdom. They put all the vulnerable people in front. There is so much here making my head spin. So many unwise decisions.
Shea: It’s like a huge puzzle of just like ugly. You know, like when I sit there, I think of like, I’m sitting here listening to you now. I mean, granted, I’ve had this in front of me and I’m like, I’m listening to this story and I’m sitting here going, wait, hold on. So the father now he became the son, but then he calls him father. But really, you know, when you, when you look at this, it started here and then it’s amazing how God allows things to happen. Here comes a Levite. Who should have been in the temple should have been back where he was supposed to be. But here he is wondering, and then it just escalates and becomes a snowball that just goes towards a deeper and a more distant position from God
Michelle: Yeah, it’s amazing because it starts with a mom making up an idol. And by the time we’re done with this, it’s like the most horrific story in the whole Bible, in my opinion, how did it get from there to there? Well, it started with just not listening to God. That’s all it takes. And you will never predict it.
Shea: Eve, Adam bam.
Michelle: Right? They were like, it’s just some fruit. And then look at us today. So the tribe of Dan, they go, they see this group Laish, maybe how you say it, they kill everyone. Not because the Lord said that these people sacrifice the such and such and no they’re peaceful and happy where they’re at and this tribe comes along and because they want it, they just slaughter everyone. Everyone’s dead. They’ve had their land, they appoint their own priests without consulting the Lord. Then it jumps, it cuts the scene to a guy who’s coming back to get his concubine. They stay the night in the land of Benjamin and they’re out in the town square or whatever. And it’s not a safe place. So this old guy who, you know, seems to have really great intentions, he seems like he’s a good hearted guy who cares about all of them, like both of their safety.
Michelle: And he says, Hey, you should not be out here. You need to come back with me. So he takes them back. Now it sounds like, Oh, whatever, deeming story about hospitality, except then this giant mob bang on the door, Allah Sodom and Gomorrah demand have sex with the people inside. You’re like this upstanding guy is not going to stand for this. Right. But the upstanding guy he’s like, please don’t do anything to the guy. That’s just terrible. Here have my virgin daughter and the concubine. So you get a guy who has his own moral line. He dropped, he has morals, but like, he’s not protecting everybody from rape. He’s like, please just have the women. And don’t disgrace everybody by going after the guy. So again, no mention of the Lord,
Shea: Kind of like, man, won’t lie with man, but you know what? You can lie with a woman, even if it’s not right. Interesting how it just spirals.
Michelle: Yeah. He was just making own calls. They throw these, these poor women out there. They’re out there all night just being brutalized. And in the morning they check on the concubine who has returned to the front steps and she’s not with them anymore. So then the most graphic part, the guy, he hacks up her body into 12 pieces and sends them on horse to the 12 tribes. Could he not have written a letter? I mean, I don’t know, but at the same time again, you don’t see God saying anything, giving any direction.
Michelle: This is a guy who’s offended at what happened. Who’s demanding his own justice and decides to get everybody riled up in his own way, doing one of the most graphic and violent things. And everybody gets offended and unites defied, Benjamin. Finally, somebody asks God who should attack. This is in judges 20. So for the first time someone finally looks upward and asks the Lord what should happen? You know, what’s amazing and beautiful. He answers. He’s not like you haven’t asked me for anything. So I’ll let you sit in this mess. He immediately answers. And he allows them to battle it out. And it’s like, okay, where have we gone? How did we get here?
Shea: Rock bottom. It’s that place that a lot of people get to. So their life is this spiral. You know, they’ve been going in this direction. I mean, Hey, I’m one of those rock bottom people. And so your life is completely out of control and you’re spiraling down this hole and you get to this place and you’re like, it’s the worst it could ever be. And you find yourself either continuing the path or calling out. And a lot of people call out to God. And so this is kind of a beautiful moment.
Shea:It’s horrible that it happens, but it becomes this testimony of how the spiral is out of control. And the only thing that stopped that spiral was God, God stopped it. When they called upon his name, he came forth and took care of it.
Michelle: There’s this moment. And it’s still, there’s all this violence, you know? Cause I mean, they’re at battle, but that’s the moment where things are accounted for in an orderly fashion and things make sense. And it only lasts a moment before the guys realized, like start vowing, never to marry their girls off to the tribe of Benjamin. And then they realize, Oh no, what have we done? We’ve made a vow. We can’t take it back. That’s blasphemy. So now we’ve got to find someone who wasn’t here, take all their women, kill their men, women and children who are already together. And then there’s not enough. So now let’s go kidnap some women from over here and ask for sympathy because you know, they didn’t do, they didn’t want to do it. We kind of like forced their hand and everything ends once again with the exact same verse in Judges, 21:25, that was in Judges, 17:6. It says in those days Israel had no King. All the people did, whatever seemed right in their own eyes. Wow. What the heck did we just recap?
Shea: I’m sitting speechless. I know I’m never speechless. And it’s like one of those speechless moments where you’re like, it didn’t learn. You started to move towards this and you didn’t learn, man. I, I there’s so many times in my life where I would move in the direction. Right? I mean, I grew up in, you know, around Christ later in life, high school years, but he was there, received him, knew him, knew about him, believed him. And of course, you know, this to that and not feeling adequate enough or feeling condemned as to the convicted, you know, you kind of turn your life. But I remember one moment when it was really low, one of, one of my many low points where you’re like, I gotta get out of this and you know, guys are in your God. I’m just, I need help. And then all of a sudden it’s like, I don’t know something whispers.
Shea: And it’s like, no, no, no, come this way. You know, I think when I got out of the army, I was lost. And so I went into drugs, alcohol, partying, all these things. And then I met a girl and it’s like, she wasn’t that, you know, she’s still clubs and dancing and all that stuff. So it wasn’t like the right direction per se, but it was a better direction. I’m like, Oh, this is the right way. You know, this is going to be good. You know, one thing leads to another, told us, quit doing drugs, kind of goes back to that whole thought. You know that you’re talking about this whole thing. It’s not about what you like is about what works and what did I do though? I went with what I liked and now, okay, okay, I’ll stop doing drugs. I was chasing one thing. And then I started chasing something else. That is exactly what this story sounds like. And then what did they do? Another judge has to come along.
Michelle: You know, all of this we’ve walked you through is this perfect example that if you only cherry pick your life will be that nonsensical. I’m sure. In the moment they didn’t feel like they were too caught up in the crazy to sit there and realize how it all transpired, how it came about. But your life will be that nonsensical. It will be that up in the air. It will be that chaotic and the whole time, because you think you’re with God, although you’re not really following what he actually wants for your life. You’re going to be confused. You’re going to start questioning what his intentions are for you. You’re going to start wondering things. And when you eventually ask, he will give you something, right? He will give you an answer. He will lead you for as long as you’ll let him. But if you fall back again, it goes back into the chaos. It goes back into the random. And if you don’t notice that switch, you will again start questioning your faith and questioning your relationship with the Lord because you will have missed when you shut him out again, they’ll be like, wait, how did he lead me here? The real question sometimes is did I stop listening to him and start choosing my own way? Because as soon as you start choosing your own way, again, it can get just the crazy can pick right back where it left off
Shea: Proverbs 2-5, kind of hit me in this story. It’s like, make your ear attentive to wisdom and incline your heart to understanding yes. If you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God, his wisdom trumps anything.
Shea:This world has to offer his love, his grace, his mercy trumps anything that this world has to offer, but see you’re right. I like what you say. Cause I think we go through this conversation with each other. Sometimes I thought I had it and then I didn’t have it, but where am I at? And I think it is kind of funny. We were talking to the card. I was like, I just kinda understand that people sit there and say, well, did I lose my salvation or not right. To lose my salvation or not. And you kind of came to that conclusion that if you’re sitting there questioning yourself about whether you lost your salvation and that you have your salvation,
Michelle: Right if you care that much about being with the Lord you’re with the Lord.
Shea: Right? And so it’s kind of like in that questioning moment though, we turn to the word of God because his words will lift us up. His words take us out of that miry clay. See if they would have listened to God when he stepped in and didn’t take it their own step farther. You see it through the whole Bible. So many of the big players in the Bible got to a point and took it into their own hands. Right? King Saul. Yeah. I mean go from, you know, blessed to I’ll take it away from you. And that goes to David. He’s going to be the King. Imagine that though. But what’s beautiful about it is that we always have him. You know, we have an advantage like this in the old Testament, they didn’t have the Holy spirit that we have today. When we’re believers, the Holy spirit sits there and starts to convict us. He teaches us, he guides us. He’s our advocate and everything. He’s not there to, to come against us, but he’s there for us. Therefore, when we find ourselves in these situations, he raises us up.
Michelle: That’s a perfect place to focus your heart. When you’re praying, ask for that discernment for that level of understanding, because we can do grotesque things and still demand justice from others and have no idea what we’re leading ourselves down. And it’s only out of often the best intentions. But again, it’s not about the best intentions. It’s about what works and what works is what God wants. Hebrews 3:4 for every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Leave it to the master builder. Amen. Thank you for joining us once again, just go to the pantrypodcast.com or the pantry podcast on Facebook to submit prayer requests and comments and questions. We are doing a Q & A at the end of this season, which is coming up soon so send us questions. Bye
KEYWORDS: SEEK HIS WISDOM, ETERNAL WISDOM, ETERNITY, FOCUS.